OKay, someone please tell me that I am not the only one watching the View today. They started talking about abortions for some reason and I am now with all of you guys here who say that Elizabeth just needs to shut up. And kudos to Whoopi for calling her on it
I don't know what to say. I am not even sure what Elisabeth was trying to say. I mean it is good because maybe that is one thing that a woman considers when having an abortion and if it makes it easier for a young woman in that position. If this 5000.00 being set aside for the child and the potential mother then decides not to have an abortion that's great. I'm all for it I am totally against abortion, but not against the people who get them. I know I know I'm confusing, but you gotta know me to understand. However, the 5000 is a great thing and would be good for the country. IRan does something like taht.
See I am part of the group that is against abortions, but while I would never get one I also would never tell another woman what she can or cant do with her body. Well within reasons, I mean under no circumstances should a woman get an abortion after whatever the certain time frame that the government established.
So yes, Go Whoopi. She almost sounded like she was speaking from experience. Either her or someone close to her
I am SO glad that Whoopi is part of this show, and her answer to Elizabeth addressed EXACTLY what I always think of during these debates. Whoopi is the sole reason why I've started watching The View again.
Here's my position: I'm both Right-to-Life AND Pro Choice. How is that possible?
Well, I believe that the first split second of conception creates a human being, not a bunch of meaningless cells. It's a person. I don't believe that abortion ought to be an alternative form of birth control, and I believe that every child OUGHT to have the right to live. And, on a personal level, I doubt that I would ever have been able to go through with an abortion. I've known plenty of people who HAVE made that choice, and some were close friends of mine. I won't ever judge them for that because I know what they went through... But MY CHOICE would most likely be NOT to have an abortion. That's what I believe I would choose, but I've also never been in the position where such a choice became a reality. Circumstances CAN change...
HOWEVER...I also very much remember the days that Whoopi referenced when women either risked their lives by performing abortions at home, or were picked up on a street corner by someone they didn't know, blindfolded, and then driven helter-skelter around a city, in an effort to further confuse them about location, until they ultimately wound up in some filthy back alley where the abortion was performed.
Many women died, or were rendered sterile.
I don't EVER want to see us return to those days where there is no choice. It may have been MY choice NOT to have an abortion, but it would be arrogant for me to try to impose my choice on someone else who has different circumstances, or different beliefs.
If someone I know is going to go forward with having an abortion, then I want her to have that abortion under the best possible circumstances, and with competent medical assistance.
The closest I ever came to facing this issue on a personal level was when I was pregnant with my second child, and I was debating whether or not to have an amnio to test for Downs. I had scheduled the amnio, but wasn't certain that I wanted to keep the appointment. My husband and I talked about it -- I was worried about the very slight risk of miscarriage -- and I talked to my doctor about it many times. I finally asked him why he thought I was having such a difficult time facing this procedure, and he answered, "Because I think you know in your heart that if the test comes back postive for Downs that you won't terminate the pregnancy anyway."
He was right.
In the middle of all of this, I had a friend who had a younger sister (by about ten years) who was born with Downs syndrome. Their parents had both just recently been killed by a drunk driver while on vacation, and my friend was now her sister's guardian. I happened to know that she absolutely adored her little sister, and did everything possible to make her life as normal, and as happy as it could be.
So in the midst of my dilemma, I asked Diane what SHE would do -- since she had this little sister with Downs, and loved her -- if she were to find out that she was carrying a Downs child.
She said, "I would have the abortion..."
Her answer was totally unexpected, frankly, but then I quickly realized that, while she adored her little sister, she also knew the heartache and the life-long responsibilities of caring for such a child.
Ultimately, after much discussion, my husband convinced me to go forward with the amnio so that, in the event it came back positive, we would at least be prepared before delivery. So I agreed...
Here's my luck: The doctor -- quite well known in our area at the time -- was unexpectedly out of town that day, and his new associate, a young female doctor who looked to be about twelve years old, performed the amnio on me. Three tries, and she still couldn't get the needle in right! I fled the office in both shock and pain...
After all of that angst over whether or not to have the procedure done in the first place, she couldn't bloody well do the amnio properly. I went home, totally FREAKED OUT that I had now really put my pregnancy at risk. I called my OB/GYN, absolutely hysterical. He told me to pour myself a glass of sherry, and go to bed. If I felt any pain, I was to call him immediately.
Then, he called his colleague -- the one who was out of town -- and proceeded to "rip him a new one."
The end of the story is that I ended up going back, with my husband this time (I had breezed in by myself the first time), and the prominent doctor assured me that it would go well this time around. So I had the amnio, and we learned that we were to have a healthy baby boy. And did.
But, wow...
__________________
"It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"
(Dumbledore to Harry Potter)
oh at this point I am so glad that I was not the only person watching. I dont think I could have relayed that back. Moore I totally agreed with everything you said. I saw a bumper sticker that said something along the lines of "I dont support Abortions: I wont have one" and I thought that was perfect.
I usually defend Elizabeth but the second she started talking about what women should do with their own bodies thats when she lost me. I hate that and think that this country has come too far with women's rights to turn back.
I could not go through with an abortion, however I think that it's better if they are safe and legal.
I read a book called "A child Called It" It was one of the worst cases of child abuse in California.
And it made me think how not every woman is supposed to be a mother! And so if she needs to have an abortion, to save some child years of torture, then so be it.
Some children nobody will adopt, they grow up in abusive homes, and the cycle continues.
I think abortion is a better choice in that respect.
However I am conservative in the opinion that you should not spread your legs if you can't handle the consequences
I'm also Pro Choice and Pro Life. It's a woman's option, and sad as it may be, sometimes there are good reasons.
The mere thought of restricting ANY woman, no matter what her circumstances, from making the decision to terminate is abhorent to me.
I didn't see The View, but the idea of throwing money at the problem disgusts me. The fact that this subject was even up for debate disgusts me.
We have to make compromises at times in order to keep the church out of the state. This and same sex relationships (and how the people choose to honour them) are good examples.
Why not keep an open heart (and mind) and learn a lesson or two from history?
Women were in the position of leading a matriarchal society before the Middle Ages, then bingo, guess what happened. This, in my opinion, needs to be seared into the minds of our young ones lest the same horrors be repeated. And remember Salem, while they're at it.
I'm very glad that I live where I do. This issue had been settled here decades ago.
Wow, Moore, thank you for sharing such a beautifully put insightful post. I agree with everything within your post, and thank you again for taking the time to put everything so beautifully. Sophia
Thank you, everyone, for your kind remarks about my post. I stayed away from religious issues, but I'll go so far as to say that I believe that if one is going to have faith in God, then one has to have faith ALL the way, or it isn't truly faith...
I don't say this in a dogmatic way, but feel comfortable in my own feelings on this matter now, after having lost my faith altogether for a good many years, a long time ago. I would never try to impose my beliefs on anyone else, but am merely trying to express them as they exist within me. I don't want to leave the impression that I judge others for believing differently because I have friends and family from every conceivable religious affiliation! I'm just grateful that my own faith finally returned, but it was a process, and a long road back...
In my case, I believe that God understands all we do, understands our human choices (He's the one who made us human in the first place, after all), understands our motives, and our hearts. If I were in the position where I felt that circumstances compelled me to terminate a small little life, then I would pray for forgiveness, and understanding. I have enough faith to believe that I would not only be forgiven, but that God would even comfort me in my time of need, and pain.
I don't believe that God views most women as being "evil" for dealing with these issues in the best way that they can at the time because MOST women make this choice very reluctantly, and in good conscience.
However, I had one friend -- well, former friend -- who, at last count many years ago, had had FOUR abortions. I found this to be appalling! Unfortunately, she was equally appalling in other areas of her life, and we parted ways... Who knows if she had any other abortions later on?
I'm sorry, but I think that's nothing less than monstrous. She had plenty of other options which certainly included the use of birth control. Her irresponsible pregnancies, and serial abortions were to me indications of abject immorality, as were her other actions with so-called "friends".
Apologies for this last rant, but I do think that some of these so-called "choices" cross a line, and that they're no longer justifiable. My former friend showed a callous disregard for human life, and I don't find that to be forgivable.
__________________
"It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"
(Dumbledore to Harry Potter)
wow Moore you always put things so well. As far as your friend goes, I wouldnt mind having a law passed against that. I hope she never really wants kids because abortions take a serious toll on the body. Thats sad, I hope she got help at some point.
And I agree with you about the religion thing. I haven't lost my faith but am recently learning more about the Bible and God so I have to agree that He would be forgiving and would help comfort. Thats what He does.
On the religious aspect, I have probably an odd amount of faith. I have always believed that no matter what is going on in my life how big or serious it is, it will be alright. I am actually happy that abortions are safe in our country, because God has given us free will. He also made it possible for us to be wiped clean of our sins. If these women would be forced to have an abortion in a back alley, there would be a horrible chance that these women could die in the middle of something horrible and never get the spiritual, mental, or physical healing that they would need.
I think of most people I know, I can say that I've really been in that situation. Getting pregnant at 14, and having my son at 15, I think many girls would have seriously considered an abortion. Many girls don't have that spiritual background, and unshakable faith to believe that no matter what is around the corner, that God is in control and will handle our needs. Not many girls have strong families that will support them. I could never ever chastise anyone for having an abortion. I wish there was more counseling for these girls both before and after (lol that's mostly why I'm doing the walk for life this weekend) the abortion. These poor girls go into this procedure almost blind and often they get some help before, but not after. This is so sad, because it doesn't mean that these girls are heartless soulless monsters (in all cases). In so many cases, they are scared, confused, hurt, and abandoned. All too frequently these women are getting pregnant when it could have been prevented. In the cases of these young girls, they just don't have anyone they trust enough in whom to confide. So once the mistake has been made, they don't know what to do, and in so many cases, an abortion seems like a fix all, when in many cases it is only a band aid. I've said a million times, that if I had the money and the ability, I would open up a home or something like that for young mothers or pregnant girls where they can get help with finishing school, taking care of their kids, and most importantly learning to love themselves. I think if resources such as these were available, that abortions would drop, adn the negative image that is associated with young unwed mothers would change vastly.
Wow I'm so off track here. You ever notice how hard it is to stay on topic when there's a baby sitting on your lap biting your nose. Yeah it's a doozie.
Anyways for those of you who missed the show they were talking about the 5000.00 bond that Hilary Clinton wants to establish for all babies when they are born. Elisabeth was mainly against it except for the fact that she thinks it might lower abortions. I honestly don't see how it would make much of an impact, but I know it would be nice for a lot of these young parents to know that there is something waiting for their child when he or she needs to go to college or get a start out in the real world.
